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Post by floydian on Mar 12, 2004 9:21:42 GMT -5
After the tripped out section of Echoes, the keyboards slowly bring back the music. During this part, the bass sounds like it is an upright bass being played with a bow. Sounds like he's sliding the note on the fretboard while using the bow. Is that how Roger played that part in the studio recording. Did he ever do it live? How do you handle that bass part? If it was done with an upright bass, is there another way to duplicate that sound without a bow? Anyway, that's my favorite part of Echoes. Especially when it melts into the guitar part. The bass resonates so much. It's such a deep and drawn out sound. Roger is definitely in the groove there.
Peace
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Post by Eroc on Mar 12, 2004 17:32:47 GMT -5
You know, I always assumed that it was a keyboard.... but upon listening to it again & more closely, it does indeed sound like a bowed bass!.... However, the Floyd have been known to create sounds in alternative ways. According to the "Pink Floyd Encyclopedia" (by Vernon Fitch, Collector's Guide Publishing Inc.), a handy & very detailed reference guide that I highly recommend, on the song Echoes David Gilmour is credited with 'fretless bass guitar' and Roger Waters with 'slide bass'.... While the tone, timbre, and attack do sound like a bowed bass, it may have been "attacked/plucked/vibrated" with a type of slide (similar to an E-bow, created soon after, which is still around for sale these days - Mark just bought one recently), like what you see Gilmour using in "Pompeii" on Saucerful & other tunes.... Live, according to what I've been listened to & the videos I've seen (watching Pompeii right now to verify!), the keyboards played the first part of that line, not Rog. When he does come in, he was just plucking notes. An E-bow on the bass there might make it sound closer to the studio version. I may have to try a few new things here, the next time we do it.....  ;D Eroc |
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Post by JC on Mar 12, 2004 18:14:31 GMT -5
Cool question . . . now, I've got to get out MY copy of Pompeii . . . (running to the DVD player)
:-)
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Post by PLPFJunior on Mar 12, 2004 22:55:11 GMT -5
I just can't see Rog with a double bass lol.......
I've never really noticed the part tho...may have to bring out Meddle soon and listen for it. I can't wait to hear the e-bow lol. Chester Kamen used one with Rog on his last tour in Europe and it was tight.....even tighter was Robert Plant's guitar player at Glastonbury using one....in the acoustic tent full out rock set...(Robert seemed to be insulted that he was assigned to the acoustic tent....so he blew off everyones ear drums....at least as loud as the Odeon if not louder). Needless to say I'm excited to see what Mark (or Eroc....) can do with it. I had thought about trying an ebow (after seeing Chester) when I could afford the luxury for the true 'bass' sound at the beginning of 'Shine On' rather than just organ. Those of you not familiar with me....as you can see I have a parenthesis (sp?) problem....sorry.
Eric
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Post by JC on Mar 13, 2004 3:08:49 GMT -5
That reminds me of an interview I read w/ Gilmour, (I believe it was in Musician magazine right around the time that Roger's 'Amused To Death' came out . . . one month, Dave was the cover story; the next month, Roger was . . . very cool . . . I've still got 'em somewhere) . . .
When asked about the playing of instruments, Dave comments on the fact that he played some bass on some of the albums (which, I'm sure most of us were able to figure out on our own), but, he specifically cites the intro to 'One of These Days'. He said (and, I'm paraphrasing) "We decided to cut that intro in stereo, so, I played one bass and Rog played the other. The first bass part you hear is me in one channel", (can't remember which speaker comes in first, 'cause I don't have a copy of 'Meddle' in front of me . . . and Eric, have you figured out yet that you're not the only one w/ parenthetical problems? ha ha), "and the second one that comes in 4 measures later is Rog. We actually sent a roadie out to buy some bass strings for Rog's bass, 'cause they were a little dull, but he ran off w/ his girlfriend for the day and never came back, so, Rog's strings sound a little 'dull-er' than mine (laughs)"
The interviewer then proceeded to ask about certain parts and one that came up was the fretless bass part on 'Hey You' and Gilmour (and this is classic! I can just see him w/ his deadpan look and a little smile after he says it) "Roger playing a fretless? Don't be ridiculous!" (or something along those lines). "Yeah, I played that part."
He then makes a comment about "Rog would thank me every once in a while for 'helping' him win a bass poll in Melody Maker or something like that."
I've never seen it documented, but, I'd be willing to bet that the bass on "Pigs (Three Different Ones)" was Dave, too. Anyone have any info on that?
Ok, enough from me . . . I've gotta ramble :-)
NP - The Wall - Live February 8, 1980 (2nd performance)
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Post by floydian on Mar 15, 2004 12:09:49 GMT -5
Listened to "One of These Days" again this time listening for the double bass part. Now that I know that it was two basses, it makes more sense. I could tell there something else to that part but I always figured that it was just effects being used or an overdub with the guitar possibly using an octave pedal. Good bit of info. there though. Been listening to that part in "Echoes" and I cannot get the idea of an acoustic bass out of my head. I played that kind of bass in the jazz band for a couple of years and the resonating sound reminds me distinctly of the sound the bow makes. Not only that, but when it's a full upright bass like those in symphonies, the acoustics give that rich, rich sound that I love. Can't help but to mention the awesome drum-playing right before the guitar comes in on "Echoes". That has to be one of my favorite parts by Nick. Not to mention his lead vocal part in "One of These Days". I don't think Mason gets enough credit. Between "Time", "Echoes", "Dogs", and countless other classics, his drumming was vital to the Floyd experience. He could truly put that perfect touch on their songs.
"You're never gonna die, you're gonna make it if ya try they're gonna love you"
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Post by JC on Mar 15, 2004 15:01:29 GMT -5
You bring up a great point about Nick's drumming. I'll never foget the first time I ever saw the Pompeii video.
(this is part where my face gets all shiny and starts that 'wavy' look, like you're looking at yourself in a pool of water, and the flashback music starts . . .)
I had to do a report comparing a book to the movie adaptation. I was in this cheesy little video store where I lived (in Hamilton, OH at the time, which is about 25 minutes north of Cincinnati) just browsing trying to think of something . . . when I came upon 'A Clockwork Orange', which I had heard A LOT about, but, had never seen and had NO friggin' idea what it was about (other than Beethoven and 'ultra'-violence . . . which is what the back of the box said) . . .
So anyway to make a long story short, I saw that it was adapted from a book, so I figured, OK, here's my project. I'll just cruise over to the library and get the book . . .
But, first, I'm gonna look at the music section. And that's where I found "Pompeii".
Needless to say, I didn't get any work on my project done that night.
The reason I bring this up (hold on, I'm gettin' to it!) is, at that point, all I knew about Floyd was what I had read, heard, and the only visual stuff I had seen was the 'Delicate Sound Of Thunder' tracks that MTV played as videos every once in a great while, Roger's Wall in Berlin and The Wall movie. I also had a tape that I had recorded off of Pay Per View from a week or so before where Floyd had performed (what was later released as 'Pulse' . . . just a couple of camera angles were different basically) and I remember thinking, Nick just kinda grooves. He's just . . . there.
I had also recently picked up a 30 minute video I had found in an independant record store that was footage of Floyd w/ Syd back in '67 performing 'Interstellar Overdrive' and 'Nick's Boogie' . . . still, Nick just kinda grooved. He might even bob his head a little.
At that point, I was of the opinion that Nick was probably the most laid-back drummer I had ever seen playing in a rock and roll band . . . then I saw Pompeii.
NICK FUCKING ROCKS! Not only is his playing superb, just WATCH him (hell, that's practically all you see during 'One of these Days' . . . Adrian said when he directed that one that he treated it like a drum solo).
So, my question (along w/ several of my buddies) was what happened? Was he 'performing' for the cameras? Or was there a period in the '70s when Nick played like this? I know from about '75 on Nick was just kinda 'there'. I know he had a divorce going on during WYWH. From everything I've read about the making of "Animals", that went relatively smooth . . . the main problems weren't internal, but, the fact that the Floyd had a recording studio built and, basically it sucked.
We all know about the making of The Wall and The Final Cut. And, I know that Dave brought in Carmen Appice to help w/ the drumming on the (first half at least) of the 'Thunder' tour.
To me, it looks like on the Pulse video that Nick was having a blast again. I can just imagine that during a couple of points of that show that he was ready to bust out any second.
OK, enough from me . . .
Take care everyone
NP - Animals Tour - Oakland, CA May 9, 1977 (and I'm imagining Nick ROCKIN')
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Post by Eroc on Mar 15, 2004 23:26:20 GMT -5
Interesting stories on this thread!
PLPF, I'm with you on the "Rog on upright" visual, too strange, lol....
jc, I think I have those Musician mags as well, somewhere - you are very accurate with your recollections, Gilmour is quite the comedian there....
And Nick does indeed rock in Pompeii, with Adrian centering on him alot.... I think it's been documented how Rog's criticisms really caused a great lack of self-confidence to be felt by both Rick and Nick... I can just see poor Nick slink off to the lounge as Rog (and Dave) bring in Jeff Porcaro to play parts on The Wall...
Roger is even quoted as saying that at one point he got Dave to agree that they should kick out Nick.... ouch!
(Me, I have a problem with periods.....)
Eroc
NP - Howard Stern's "E!" show
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Post by JC on Mar 16, 2004 0:58:05 GMT -5
I was just watching Stern too, E; Jimmy Fallon is fucking hilarious!
Yeah, I could only imagine Rog bringing in Jeff Porcaro for "Mother", (and even Jeff's Dad to play the 'military' drum on "Bring The Boys . . .", remember!) . . . but, I'm glad he did. Have you ever heard the demo of "Mother" w/ Nick playing? It's pretty strange, although all he does is instead of placing all of the downbeats on 2 & 4 on the snare (you know, 'going' w/ the time changes like the version on the album that we all know and love), Nick just played straight across all of the time signature changes. So, every time there's a time 'shift' the snare beats get displaced . . . which would probably be very cool if it was a Zappa tune or something like that. But, there, it just sounds weird.
I've also got the demos for 'The Final Cut', but, I don't remember if the version on there is one that Nick plays on before Rog brought in Andy Newmark. I'll have to pull that one out again and listen to it.
NP - The 13th Floor Elevators - Easter Everywhere
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Post by PLPFJunior on Mar 18, 2004 15:14:45 GMT -5
So I listened to the song..... I too think I hear a stand-up....now the eternal mystery.....who played it?? I dunno if this question will ever be answered correctly lol.....bc if it isn't documented now, will Rog admit to not doing it....will Dave try to claim more than he did....was Nick off eating.....was Rick in the stall with his mirror and razor lol. Seriously though, I do wonder who did it. I also wonder is maybe it was a regular bass with a bow (a-la-Jimmy Page)  ? Cool sound that definately adds to the song........ I wonder where else Dave could have used a fretless (I only listened to Echoes) on Meddle....so maybe that was it and by fretless they meant double bass fretless. I'll have to do some checking now lol. Eric |
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Post by JC on Mar 19, 2004 4:56:34 GMT -5
Yeah . . . I can agree that it sounds like a bowed upright, (makes me think of Tony Levin w/ his electric NS) . . . but, I'm PRETTY positive that it's Dave doing that on his Strat.
I remember reading an article in Guitar World where they reprinted a question that someone had asked Dave (one of those 'ask the stars' columns . . . probably from Melody Maker or something ) shortly after 'Meddle' came out and they asked how he got his tone on "One of These Days" . . . (I know, we're talking about "Echoes", but, I'm getting to that part).
He said (basically) that he just turned on ALL of his stompboxes to get that sound. I don't remember everthing he had, but, I know there was at least a distortion, compression, delay, and flange pedals.
Now, if you go the 'funky' part before the 'trippy' part in "Echoes", (which, BTW is MY fave part of the tune . . . especially the Pompeii version w/ Rog throwin' in that cool bass lick), you hear Dave switching between his distortion and his straight amp sound every four measures.
I'm PRETTY sure that's the same tone he's using on the part that we're over-analyzing the hell out of. And, if you add the compression pedal in there, he'd be able to hit those notes w/ a pick w/out it sounding like a pick (am I making any sense here? I know what I mean . . . I could grab my Strat and SHOW you what I mean . . . oh well).
Oh! An interesting aside that has absolutely NOTHING to w/ "Echoes". . .
For those of you who don't know, I'm a full time musician, and last week, my band opened up for Dickey Betts and Great Southern. Dickey's second guitar player (Dan Toler) is a buddy of my guitar player and my Dad (all from the same town) . . . so, we're hangin' out before the show. Dan has this HUGE fucking WEM 4x12 cabinet and Sonny (my guitar player) was admiring it. He asked me if I'd ever seen anything like it and said, "Yeah, in pictures. That's the same kind of cabinet that Gilmour used back in the day . . . but, I think he used 4 of 'em" . . .
So, Sonny asks Dan, "Where'd you get that kick-ass sounding cabinet?"
Do I need to finish the story?
Bastard :-)
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Post by floydian on Mar 19, 2004 13:04:16 GMT -5
It's hard to say which part of Echoes is the best. The whole song is awesome. Gotta love the "trippy" part. Listening to that and "Several Species of Small Furry Animals Gathered Together in a Cave and Grooving w/ a Pict" out in the woods is cool. Reminds me of animals and nature. Played those at festivals and groups of people flocked to the sounds.
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Post by PLPFJunior on Mar 19, 2004 19:31:45 GMT -5
It's hard to say which part of Echoes is the best. The whole song is awesome. Gotta love the "trippy" part. Listening to that and "Several Species of Small Furry Animals Gathered Together in a Cave and Grooving w/ a Pict" out in the woods is cool. Reminds me of animals and nature. Played those at festivals and groups of people flocked to the sounds. I love our descriptions "trippy" "funky" lol. Yeah I wanna go camping sometime and take Ummagumma....sounds like a plan for that festival in June........I'm excited. Eric |
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Post by PikoJoeATD on Mar 21, 2004 0:10:28 GMT -5
Eric,
I'm not sure but I think someone (cough) mentioned that they may possibly be playing the ledges around here soon. Thats the best for camping and 'tripping' lol. If it happens you need to def make the journey out here. It's only 20-30 min from my house.
Peace.
Joe
PS send me an email about Chicago.
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Post by PLPFJunior on Mar 25, 2004 9:49:40 GMT -5
I'm not sure but I think someone (cough) mentioned that they may possibly be playing the ledges around here soon. Thats the best for camping and 'tripping' lol. If it happens you need to def make the journey out here. It's only 20-30 min from my house. Ledges is up on the gigs page. I'm probably going to it, however Rush is in Chicago that night and I REALLY wanna catch them on their 30th Anniversary tour especially since I'm a new fan and how much longer are they going to be out there touring....but as always $$ is an issue lol....too much spent on gear and not enough stowed away. But yeah I will probably end up out there camping lol. Does anyone else find it funny that one of the (if not the) longest thread(s) is about the very subtle "bass" (havent' established EXACTLY what it is yet) in Echoes?? I just thought it was curious. Later. Eric |
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Post by JC on Mar 25, 2004 13:19:08 GMT -5
I'm tellin' ya all it's Gilmour's guitar . . . see above post.
I watched Pompeii again the other night and that proved it . . . to me, anyway . . . and the what the hell do I know? . . . :-)
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Post by PLPFJunior on Mar 26, 2004 10:54:38 GMT -5
I think I will go watch Pompeii lol.
Eric
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Post by Eroc on Mar 26, 2004 14:54:56 GMT -5
I tend to think you are correct, JC.... although we may never know for sure (studio & live - 2 different beasts!)... maybe somebody can dig up an interview w/Gilmour about it.. but I'VE never seen one...
BTW- cool story JC about Dan Toler... just saw him w/Dickey, got the show on "instant live" Cd, to add to our swap lists!
Eroc
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Post by JC on Mar 26, 2004 18:40:13 GMT -5
Sorry to go totally off the tread, but, Eroc, is the Cincinnati show avaiable? I've put out feelers for one (I know someone was taping . . . dumbass me, I didn't get a chance to talk to 'em) but haven't had any hits yet. If anyone here loves The Allman Bros. and you get a chance, go see Dickey!
Now, back to the original thread . . .
I'll see if anyone knows of any articles w/ Gilmour talking about it.
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Post by JC on Mar 26, 2004 18:42:08 GMT -5
. . . and DUH! I don't know why this hasn't been asked yet but, Eroc, how does WYWH cover that part of the tune? . . . (remember, I only saw you do it during soundcheck and you all kinda just let it go during the 'funky' jam part so, I didn't get to 'see' you guys play that part yet) . . .
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;D 
? Cool sound that definately adds to the song........ I wonder where else Dave could have used a fretless (I only listened to Echoes) on Meddle....so maybe that was it and by fretless they meant double bass fretless. I'll have to do some checking now lol.